In the interests of simplicity, then, I'm once again taking a look at the magic system. Dividing things up into schools of magic, while it makes sense in some ways, has also imposed some limits that were not intended. Not to mention that the sheer volume of spells I've accumulated from so many different sourcebooks in order to fill out the lists of some of the lesser endowed schools (such as Divination) makes sifting through them prohibitive. Of course, the idea of rendering all that work invalid has only been more and more distasteful the more I've added to it, but I think something needs to give.
Part of this stems from reading through another sourcebook, Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed. In this book, magic has been separated according to complexity. Every level has simple spells, which any caster might access, complex spells which might require greater training or access, and exotic spells, spells that might become the signature ability of a character because of their rarity or difficulty. And the book has its own magic spells, already separated into these categories.
Trying to just cram it into the full list would destroy the balance. Trying to split the full list into simple, complex, and exotic is an ambitious and prohibitive project. It would be easiest, if I want to use this method, to simply use only this one spell list, but it is tiny in comparison to what I have, and there are entire schools with less than ten spells total, and none in the first few levels. Transmutation, as per the usual, has the most spells, including a few I disagree should be placed there, but others have also commented on the favoritism Cook shows for Transmuters. Obviously, this wouldn't work for a system where schools of magic are learned individually.
And so I'm considering scrapping all of this subdivision, and offering simply two choices: Sorcery, and Ritualism.
Sorcery, based on Mind stats, akin to Dragaeran sorcery, where the caster simply pulls energy (either to him or from within, I'll leave that to the player's flavor preference) and tosses it to achieve the desired effect. This would apply also to any magic system where memorization is more important than intuition, though it could be argued that the use of magical formulae is ritualistic.
Ritualism, based on Soul stats, which might be Eastern witchcraft, or religion-based, or even bardic magic - any ritual-based magic.
I'm not sure if this will be the final iteration or not. There are some discrepancies, I'm sure. Discworld wizards, for example, might well be ritualists with such a system, especially when you consider some of the high-powered magic such as the Rite of AshkEnte. But, considering how the Disc works, and what that Rite in particular does, that may not be inappropriate, especially if you go back to Pratchett's Sourcery. More concerning might be that magic used by divine beings might be categorized as Sorcery, since they're simply lobbing energy. Another explanation might be that they're imposing their will upon the cosmos, which would place their magic as being based on Willpower stats.
But all of this is simply a matter of semantics, a matter of the magic's origin, and not a matter of what you can do with it. Arcana Unearthed uses the same spell list for all caster types, leaving it to the player (and a handful of various feats and methods of altering magical effects selected by the player) to determine the flavor. This method would mean that the source of magic has no bearing on its limits - a Sorcerer might heal someone just as well or better than a Ritualist. It does away entirely with the debate of cleric vs. mage, arcane vs. divine, and says instead, "This is what is possible. How you get there is the fun part."
In some ways, though, it seems they should complement each other. Let's use the Force as an example: most of the active abilities used in combat such as a Force Push or even the Jedi Mind Trick would be based in Sorcery, in the Mind. The ability to use the Force as a means to predict the future, or to commune with deceased Masters, or to sense a great "disturbance" would be based in Ritualism, in the Soul. So how do I account for this?
Maybe I should just forego Mind and Soul entirely, and create a Magic stat, then separate spells by casting time - anything longer than a standard action is based in Ritualism.
Showing posts with label Gaming Genres. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Gaming Genres. Show all posts
Friday, February 22, 2013
Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Mad RP Skillz
One of the people I follow on G+ linked to this livejournal post by Monte Cook, which started me thinking about things, but it wasn't until I read one of the comments on the post by Bryan Schuder that things started clicking for me. He wrote:
Secondly, it was nice to see that my decision to try and minimize any rules based on movement and grid-style tactics is not necessarily a terrible one. I still enjoy seeing a layout, and I still enjoy having miniatures as character and monster representations, but trying to lock down how fast or far someone can move tends to only slow combat down, and if combat isn't the primary focus of the game then that seems to be a mistake.
Thirdly, while reading through this I was reminded of skill systems in both D&D and Shadowrun, and how the GM's I've played under have handled skill resolution in the past. One thing that really frustrated me (as well as other players) at the Tuesday Game(tm) Shadowrun sessions was that we, the players, were more or less limited to our own experiences and personal strong points in designing characters to play. The GM ran most non-combat skills solely through RP, whether it was a social skill in trying to bluff or negotiate, checking for traps on a closed entryway, even disabling those traps. This depended on the player having knowledge that the character should have had, or been trained for, and it meant you were pretty much incapable if you didn't have player knowledge of how to do these things. If it was combat, or a skill the GM didn't have a personal basis for judgment on, you could just roll the dice.
Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun at the games, and in Shadowrun, but often I would end up feeling like the points I would put into skills were wasted. Most often I played a Face/Negotiator type character, and the points I put into social skills meant I didn't have some of the machine, vehicle, or combat skills that others did. So when it came time for combat, I'd get one pistol shot and had to hope it would hit, as opposed to two or three initiative passes with machine guns or heavy artillery. Even if I took the cinematic route in combat, it still meant I'd maybe put down one baddie in the entire battle. Yet the sacrifice to my combat abilities felt meaningless, because not once did I ever pick up the dice to roll a social skill, despite having amazing dicepools in them. The only times my character would shine were at the beginning and end of a run, when the team had to meet with the contact to get the job and when we got paid, and maybe an occasional social infiltration.
Here's an anecdotal example: The proverbial poo has hit the fan, with the party down on the docks outside a warehouse. Enemy targets are everywhere, including a helicopter. Police forces are on the way, but the gates to the dock are shut and locked. Since my character can't do anything meaningful in combat anyway, I pull back and hustle to the gatehouse to find the key and unlock the gate. The GM rules it will take me X rounds to get to the gatehouse, so I'm investing a lot of time and focus into this action while everyone else is making with the fireworks. I get to the gatehouse, grab the key, and start running for the gate. One of the party members with a heavy gun of some kind manages to disable the enemy helicopter. I reach the gate just as the helicopter crash lands into it, taking the gate down entirely. I'm left standing there, key in hand, having wasted all that time doing less than nothing, rather than even the next-to-nothing I'd have done if I'd stayed in combat with my pistol. I was so invested in trying to do the thing that was seen as most helpful to the situation, that I was unable to come up with alternative methods of involving myself in the scenario which might have had more ultimate effect.
The image of my character standing there with the key in hand, staring dumbfounded at the now destroyed gate, burned itself into the minds of the players there, and everyone else got a big laugh. I grinned and bore it, then, but it has always bothered me. I had accepted the fact my character was more useful in doing this menial task than in trying to fight, and then was essentially told that no matter what I tried to do, my character's actions were entirely meaningless to the scenario. Thinking on that, and looking back now, I have to wonder how much any of the characters' actions in those runs made any difference, whether we actually made a difference to how things went or whether we were all just railroaded through the storyboards in the GM's head.
This is one of the things that I keep in mind when I think about skill systems, and one of the reasons I lean towards a "tight rules" mentality when working out the mechanics of those skills. If my players want to roleplay out a situation, that's great. I would definitely give a bonus to their skill check if I thought they did a good job. But basing the entire result on their RP, and ignoring whatever bonus they actually have to the skill, means that you never actually end up with people roleplaying their characters. Instead, they end up just playing themselves, because that's the only way to progress.
In one of my gaming groups, we had an interesting contrast that occurred that exemplifies why more constraint leads to constraint thought.
One GM started out the campaign in DnD 2nd Edtion, took it to 3.5, and then finally Pathfinder. To give him a break during the big changes and reworkings, I'd get to GM and prototype my game system and setting. My system is designed to be loose and admits to have gaps in coverage, but with the understanding that those are taken care of by things outside the core rules (game master or setting specific rulings). It was a blast, my players got to play all kinds of crazy characters (even players with no real combat skills that actually saved the day many, many times), do wild things (nano-tech infested player hijacks a pre-fall robot to distract and wrestle another robot infested with extra-dimensional bacteria.. while all the other players are trying to gun it down), and they felt their creativity would be greatly rewarded. (You know that hijacked pre-fall robot? They took it with them. It has it's own trailer. They used it to loot plasma cannons off of the turrets they disabled.) I'm an on-the-fly GM, so stick with outlines and let the players fill in the rest.
The interesting part came when we switched back to the other GM's campaign. Finally, in a discussion about tactics, the GM spouted, "Why don't you do crazy stuff in my game like you do in his game?" A player responded, "Well, in DnD there's all these rules and we try to do crazy cool stuff and it never works or we just can't do it." While I had a grin on my face, that statement stuck with me.
If your rules prevent anything outside their explicit domain from happening, players are going to naturally trend towards sticking within them. It's simple game theory; if no reward is had for an action, it will occur with decreasing frequency. Another situation came when our group tried out grid combat. While it allowed everything to be laid out well, our groups tendencies towards cool, creative ideas decreased quite rapidly. This bothered the GM and so we got rid of exact dimensions combat. After some testing, he went with the "not-to-scale minimap" setup. Allows the group to understand the layout, but not feel they are constrained to it any arbitrary movement rules. The creativity came back and all was good.First off, this helps me to realize that it might be okay to not have everything accounted for in the rules. My focus on playtesting was spurred by concerns about powergamers, rules lawyers, and just generally those people who would try to take advantage of any system, no matter how well designed. But honestly, the chances of me ever publishing whatever system I end up with are slim at best, and I don't see my playerbase growing at any point in the near future, so chances are good I can stop worrying about playtesting and just start playing.
Secondly, it was nice to see that my decision to try and minimize any rules based on movement and grid-style tactics is not necessarily a terrible one. I still enjoy seeing a layout, and I still enjoy having miniatures as character and monster representations, but trying to lock down how fast or far someone can move tends to only slow combat down, and if combat isn't the primary focus of the game then that seems to be a mistake.
Thirdly, while reading through this I was reminded of skill systems in both D&D and Shadowrun, and how the GM's I've played under have handled skill resolution in the past. One thing that really frustrated me (as well as other players) at the Tuesday Game(tm) Shadowrun sessions was that we, the players, were more or less limited to our own experiences and personal strong points in designing characters to play. The GM ran most non-combat skills solely through RP, whether it was a social skill in trying to bluff or negotiate, checking for traps on a closed entryway, even disabling those traps. This depended on the player having knowledge that the character should have had, or been trained for, and it meant you were pretty much incapable if you didn't have player knowledge of how to do these things. If it was combat, or a skill the GM didn't have a personal basis for judgment on, you could just roll the dice.
Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun at the games, and in Shadowrun, but often I would end up feeling like the points I would put into skills were wasted. Most often I played a Face/Negotiator type character, and the points I put into social skills meant I didn't have some of the machine, vehicle, or combat skills that others did. So when it came time for combat, I'd get one pistol shot and had to hope it would hit, as opposed to two or three initiative passes with machine guns or heavy artillery. Even if I took the cinematic route in combat, it still meant I'd maybe put down one baddie in the entire battle. Yet the sacrifice to my combat abilities felt meaningless, because not once did I ever pick up the dice to roll a social skill, despite having amazing dicepools in them. The only times my character would shine were at the beginning and end of a run, when the team had to meet with the contact to get the job and when we got paid, and maybe an occasional social infiltration.
Here's an anecdotal example: The proverbial poo has hit the fan, with the party down on the docks outside a warehouse. Enemy targets are everywhere, including a helicopter. Police forces are on the way, but the gates to the dock are shut and locked. Since my character can't do anything meaningful in combat anyway, I pull back and hustle to the gatehouse to find the key and unlock the gate. The GM rules it will take me X rounds to get to the gatehouse, so I'm investing a lot of time and focus into this action while everyone else is making with the fireworks. I get to the gatehouse, grab the key, and start running for the gate. One of the party members with a heavy gun of some kind manages to disable the enemy helicopter. I reach the gate just as the helicopter crash lands into it, taking the gate down entirely. I'm left standing there, key in hand, having wasted all that time doing less than nothing, rather than even the next-to-nothing I'd have done if I'd stayed in combat with my pistol. I was so invested in trying to do the thing that was seen as most helpful to the situation, that I was unable to come up with alternative methods of involving myself in the scenario which might have had more ultimate effect.
The image of my character standing there with the key in hand, staring dumbfounded at the now destroyed gate, burned itself into the minds of the players there, and everyone else got a big laugh. I grinned and bore it, then, but it has always bothered me. I had accepted the fact my character was more useful in doing this menial task than in trying to fight, and then was essentially told that no matter what I tried to do, my character's actions were entirely meaningless to the scenario. Thinking on that, and looking back now, I have to wonder how much any of the characters' actions in those runs made any difference, whether we actually made a difference to how things went or whether we were all just railroaded through the storyboards in the GM's head.
This is one of the things that I keep in mind when I think about skill systems, and one of the reasons I lean towards a "tight rules" mentality when working out the mechanics of those skills. If my players want to roleplay out a situation, that's great. I would definitely give a bonus to their skill check if I thought they did a good job. But basing the entire result on their RP, and ignoring whatever bonus they actually have to the skill, means that you never actually end up with people roleplaying their characters. Instead, they end up just playing themselves, because that's the only way to progress.
Sunday, July 25, 2010
Inspiration Gathering
My wife and I took our son to the library last week, and while we were there I did a bit of hunting through their shelves, trying to find some inspiration for settings and such. I discovered a few books by Margaret Weis of Dragonlance fame, though not a full set of anything. They didn't have any of Salvatore's work, either, which surprised me a bit considering his popularity.
We had arrived late, and the library was closing soon, so I didn't get a lot of time to look through things. I more or less picked this up at random:
It looked to be a blend of science fiction and fantasy, incorporating both magic and space travel. It seems to be the second in a set, possibly a trilogy, so I was a little disappointed that I hadn't been able to borrow the first, but it was easy enough to follow regardless.
Having read it, I've now settled on using Perception for Mage mana. I also have a rather nifty reason for why someone can't just take a firearm from Earth and go on a planet-hopping rampage with it. Essentially, the universe is separated into different zones, each with a different reality. Each reality has its own rules regarding physics and magic. Spaceships are built with the ability to reconfigure the way they work, in order to align themselves with the laws of each reality they pass through. If they didn't reconfigure, they would be incapable of moving past the boundary.
In the book, the closer you get to the center of the universe, the less distance there is between realities. Ships that travel near the center have to be extremely flexible to change their configurations quickly. Their crews carry swords, rather than energy weapons, guns, etc., because a sharp blade is always a sharp blade, regardless of reality.
Those who use magic must learn to manipulate the mana according to the rules of the reality they are in. They need to be able to sense the flow of mana, so that they can figure out how it is used in their current location.
While I may not be ready for an interplanetary campaign, I at least have some ideas for how I might do it, as well as some additional things to keep in mind when I come up with new worlds to explore.
We had arrived late, and the library was closing soon, so I didn't get a lot of time to look through things. I more or less picked this up at random:
It looked to be a blend of science fiction and fantasy, incorporating both magic and space travel. It seems to be the second in a set, possibly a trilogy, so I was a little disappointed that I hadn't been able to borrow the first, but it was easy enough to follow regardless.
Having read it, I've now settled on using Perception for Mage mana. I also have a rather nifty reason for why someone can't just take a firearm from Earth and go on a planet-hopping rampage with it. Essentially, the universe is separated into different zones, each with a different reality. Each reality has its own rules regarding physics and magic. Spaceships are built with the ability to reconfigure the way they work, in order to align themselves with the laws of each reality they pass through. If they didn't reconfigure, they would be incapable of moving past the boundary.
In the book, the closer you get to the center of the universe, the less distance there is between realities. Ships that travel near the center have to be extremely flexible to change their configurations quickly. Their crews carry swords, rather than energy weapons, guns, etc., because a sharp blade is always a sharp blade, regardless of reality.
Those who use magic must learn to manipulate the mana according to the rules of the reality they are in. They need to be able to sense the flow of mana, so that they can figure out how it is used in their current location.
While I may not be ready for an interplanetary campaign, I at least have some ideas for how I might do it, as well as some additional things to keep in mind when I come up with new worlds to explore.
Monday, July 19, 2010
Settings and Genres
Though I've been focused mostly on mechanics, I've also been keeping my eyes open for campaign settings and other tidbits that I hope would make the game more interesting for everyone. My friend Jonathan does his best to keep me supplied with new material to sift through, and loaned me a book based in a setting called the Iron Kingdoms.
As you can tell from the cover art on the character guide, it attempts to be a blend of medieval fantasy and steampunk, and from what I can tell seems to pull it off fairly well. The concept, or at least the concept art, really appeals to me.
So I went through and pulled the weaponry from it to add to my master list of weapons, including the magical/alchemical firearms. The blasting powder and ammunition for these firearms is enclosed in a silk pouch divided into two compartments. The pin pierces the packet, letting the two magical powders mix, and the resulting explosion follows the path of least resistance down the barrel.
This is all very interesting, and very cool to introduce into a world without firearms. But it occurred to me that if interplanetary travel is possible in one's game, then there would no doubt be access to non-magical firearms, as well as much more advanced weaponry. That opens up a terribly large can of worms, since modern firearms would be (I imagine) much more powerful than even the guns in Iron Kingdoms. Bows and crossbows would fall by the wayside, or be relegated to the poorest of adventurers. The game would no longer be medieval, but instead modern fantasy or even science fiction.
I'm not opposed to those settings, mind you. I grew up with medieval fantasy, so I'm more comfortable there, but I've also played in Cyberpunk. My main concern, here, is what my players are interested in. I don't want to end up adding in more advanced technology, whether it's science or magic based (Any technology sufficiently advanced etc., etc.), and especially if it's to the detriment of the existing weaponry available, if my players would be happier retaining a medieval feel rather than a renaissance, Victorian-era, modern, post-modern apocalyptic, or space cowboy genre.
Since Jonathan provided me with the Iron Kingdoms source material, I can fairly safely assume he's comfortable with a certain level of steampunkery creeping into the game (as well as a necropolis teeming with undead, but that's another story). Knowing my wife, I'm sure she'd be comfortable with a touch of steampunk as well. So I feel mostly safe in adding in the IK weaponry. The full setting, however, doesn't mesh well with the rest of what I've set up. And I really don't want to mess with the clockwork warmachines at this juncture. So I'm still trying to dig for campaign and setting ideas, at least to start off with.
I'd like to be able to roll with any punches the group would throw at me, switch from one world/setting to another, one quest-line to another in midstream without flinching. I remember my mother telling me how she used to set up elaborate campaigns, just to have the party decide, "Nah, let's go that way instead." So now she drops groups in an established safe zone, and lets them choose where to go. Her home-brewed campaign setting, though, encompasses not just worlds, but alternate dimensions. It's large enough that it is still mostly unexplored territory. I end up feeling rather intimidated when trying to choose where to start adventuring.
So I know I need to start off small. Limit my focus to one area, with a handful of low-level campaigns, and build outwards and/or upwards from there. But I want to make sure that, despite it being a small area/low-level, it will grab the interest of my players. To that end...
Anyone have a favorite setting, genre, or concept they'd love to have a chance to play in?
As you can tell from the cover art on the character guide, it attempts to be a blend of medieval fantasy and steampunk, and from what I can tell seems to pull it off fairly well. The concept, or at least the concept art, really appeals to me.
So I went through and pulled the weaponry from it to add to my master list of weapons, including the magical/alchemical firearms. The blasting powder and ammunition for these firearms is enclosed in a silk pouch divided into two compartments. The pin pierces the packet, letting the two magical powders mix, and the resulting explosion follows the path of least resistance down the barrel.
This is all very interesting, and very cool to introduce into a world without firearms. But it occurred to me that if interplanetary travel is possible in one's game, then there would no doubt be access to non-magical firearms, as well as much more advanced weaponry. That opens up a terribly large can of worms, since modern firearms would be (I imagine) much more powerful than even the guns in Iron Kingdoms. Bows and crossbows would fall by the wayside, or be relegated to the poorest of adventurers. The game would no longer be medieval, but instead modern fantasy or even science fiction.
I'm not opposed to those settings, mind you. I grew up with medieval fantasy, so I'm more comfortable there, but I've also played in Cyberpunk. My main concern, here, is what my players are interested in. I don't want to end up adding in more advanced technology, whether it's science or magic based (Any technology sufficiently advanced etc., etc.), and especially if it's to the detriment of the existing weaponry available, if my players would be happier retaining a medieval feel rather than a renaissance, Victorian-era, modern, post-modern apocalyptic, or space cowboy genre.
Since Jonathan provided me with the Iron Kingdoms source material, I can fairly safely assume he's comfortable with a certain level of steampunkery creeping into the game (as well as a necropolis teeming with undead, but that's another story). Knowing my wife, I'm sure she'd be comfortable with a touch of steampunk as well. So I feel mostly safe in adding in the IK weaponry. The full setting, however, doesn't mesh well with the rest of what I've set up. And I really don't want to mess with the clockwork warmachines at this juncture. So I'm still trying to dig for campaign and setting ideas, at least to start off with.
I'd like to be able to roll with any punches the group would throw at me, switch from one world/setting to another, one quest-line to another in midstream without flinching. I remember my mother telling me how she used to set up elaborate campaigns, just to have the party decide, "Nah, let's go that way instead." So now she drops groups in an established safe zone, and lets them choose where to go. Her home-brewed campaign setting, though, encompasses not just worlds, but alternate dimensions. It's large enough that it is still mostly unexplored territory. I end up feeling rather intimidated when trying to choose where to start adventuring.
So I know I need to start off small. Limit my focus to one area, with a handful of low-level campaigns, and build outwards and/or upwards from there. But I want to make sure that, despite it being a small area/low-level, it will grab the interest of my players. To that end...
Anyone have a favorite setting, genre, or concept they'd love to have a chance to play in?
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